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Òûñÿ÷à è îäèí ñïîñîá ïåðåä¸ðíóòü
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Zabougornov
Äîáðûé Àäìèíèñòðàòîð (èíîãäà)


: 06.03.2005
: 12000
: Îáåð-ãðóïïåí-äîöåíò, ñò. ðóêîâîäèòåëü ãðóïïû ñêîðîñòíûõ ñâèíãåðîâ, îí æå Çàáàøëåâè÷ Îöààò Ïîýëåâè÷

: , 15 2009, 12:59:27     : Òûñÿ÷à è îäèí ñïîñîá ïåðåä¸ðíóòü

Âîò îäèí èç íèõ. Ïðåäñòàâèòü äåëî òàê, ÷òî èíôîðìàöèÿ èñõîäèò îò òðåòüèõ ëèö (ïî äàííûì ãàçåòû), â òî âðåìÿ êàê èíôîðìàöèÿ èñõîäèò èç ñàìîãî Èçðàèëÿ, èç íåíàçâàííûõ èñòî÷íèêîâ.

http://www.newsru.co.il/mideast/15oct2009/hisball308.html
"Àëü-Äæàðèäà": Ñèðèÿ ïåðåäàëà "Õèçáàëëå" ÷åòâåðòü ñâîåãî ðàêåòíîãî

Âûõîäÿùàÿ â ñâåò â Êóâåéòå ãàçåòà "Àëü-Äæàðèäà" ñîîáùàåò ñåãîäíÿ, ÷òî Ñèðèÿ ïåðåäàëà "Õèçáàëëå" ÷åòâåðòü íàõîäèâøèõñÿ â åå àðñåíàëå ðàêåò. Ïî äàííûì ãàçåòû, òàêèì îáðàçîì ñèðèéñêèé ðåæèì, íå æåëàþùèé ïðÿìîãî âîîðóæåííîãî êîíôëèêòà ñ Èçðàèëåì, ñòàðàåòñÿ ïîääåðæèâàòü íàïðÿæåííîñòü íà ëèâàíî-èçðàèëüñêîé ãðàíèöå....

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1121298.html
Report: Syria supplying long-range missiles to Hezbollah
By Jack Khoury, Haaretz Correspondent


Syria has supplied the Lebanese militant group Hezbollah with about a quarter of its arsenal of middle- and long-range missiles, the Kuwaiti newspaper Al Jarida on Thursday quoted Israeli security sources as saying.

According to the report, the sources said since Syria does not wish to enter into a direct conflict with Israel, it is using Hezbollah and the Palestinian militant group Hamas as proxies to harass it.
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A la guerre comme a la guerre èëè âòîðàÿ ðåäàêöèÿ Çàáóãîðíîâà
Esti



: 22.01.2006
: 904

: , 17 2010, 08:57:31     :

Ôðàíöóçñêèé ñóä: ôèëüì î ãèáåëè ïàëåñòèíñêîãî ìàëü÷èêà Ìîõàììåäà àä-Äóðû «êëåâåòíè÷åñêèé» è «íåîáúåêòèâíûé»
:
Ôðàíöóçñêèé ñóä ïðèçíàë ïðîäåìîíñòðèðîâàííûé ïî ìåñòíîìó ÷àñòíîìó òåëåêàíàëó Canal + äîêóìåíòàëüíûé ôèëüì î ÿêîáû ãèáåëè ïàëåñòèíñêîãî ìàëü÷èêà Ìîõàììåäà àä-Äóðû îò îãíÿ ñîëäàò ÖÀÕÀËà «êëåâåòíè÷åñêèì» è «íåîáúåêòèâíûì». Ñóä ïîñòàíîâèë, ÷òî òåëåêàíàë íå äîëæåí èñïîëüçîâàòü èìåþùóþñÿ èíôîðìàöèþ äëÿ òîãî, ÷òîáû ñäåëàòü êàðòèíó áîëåå ñáàëàíñèðîâàííîé è òî÷íîé.

Äîêóìåíòàëüíûé ôèëüì áûë ïîêàçàí çà ìåñÿö äî âûíåñåíèÿ ñóäåáíîãî âåðäèêòà ïî ïåðâîíà÷àëüíîìó èñêó, ïîäàííîìó Ôèëèïïîì Êàðñåíòè ïðîòèâ 2-ãî êàíàëà ôðàíöóçñêîãî òåëåâèäåíèÿ, òðàíñëèðîâàâøåãî êàäðû, íà êîòîðûõ ìàëü÷èê áóäòî áû ãèáíåò â ïåðåñòðåëêå ìåæäó ïàëåñòèíñêèìè áîåâèêàìè è èçðàèëüñêèìè ñîëäàòàìè. Èíöèäåíò ïðîèçîøåë â Ãàçå â 2000 ãîäó.

 ãèáåëè ìàëü÷èêà ñðàçó áûë îáâèíåí ÖÀÕÀË, êîòîðûé ïîíà÷àëó äàæå ýòîãî íå îòðèöàë. Ñ òåõ ïîð Ìîõàììåä àä-Äóðà ñòàë âî âñåì ìèðå ñèìâîëîì ïàëåñòèíñêîãî ñîïðîòèâëåíèÿ «èçðàèëüñêèì îêêóïàíòàì», â åãî ÷åñòü íàçâàíû óëèöû è ïëîùàäè, âûïóùåíû ìàðêè ñ åãî èçîáðàæåíèåì, î íåì ñíÿòû ôèëüìû, íàïèñàíû êíèãè.

Êàíàë France 2 ïîäàë â ñóä íà Êàðñåíòè, óòâåðæäàâøåãî, ÷òî êàäðû áûëè ñôàëüñèôèöèðîâàíû, îáâèíÿÿ åãî â êëåâåòå, îäíàêî âåñíîé 2008 ãîäà Àïåëëÿöèîííûé ñóä â Ïàðèæå ñíÿë ñ Êàðñåíòè îáâèíåíèÿ, îòìåíèâ ïðèãîâîð ïðîòèâ íåãî.

 òðàíñëÿöèè France 2 óòâåðæäàëîñü, ÷òî àä-Äóðà áûë óáèò â ðåçóëüòàòå èçðàèëüñêîãî îáñòðåëà. Íî ïîñëåäóþùåå ðàññëåäîâàíèå, ïðîâåäåííîå â Èçðàèëå, è äîïîëíèòåëüíûå êàäðû, íå ïðîäåìîíñòðèðîâàííûå íà ôðàíöóçñêîì òåëåâèäåíèè, íî ïðèñóòñòâîâàâøèå íà îðèãèíàëüíîé ïëåíêå, ïîêàçàëè, êàê «óáèòûé» ïîäíèìàåò ãîëîâó è îòêðûâàåò ãëàçà, ñëîâíî âîñêðåñàÿ èç ìåðòâûõ. Ýòè êàäðû ïîñòàâèëè ïîä ñîìíåíèå âñþ ïðîïàãàíäèñòñêè ðàñêðó÷åííóþ èñòîðèþ ñ ìíèìîé ãèáåëüþ ïàëåñòèíñêîãî ìàëü÷èêà.

«Ýòà ïîáåäà â ñóäå – ëèøü åùå îäèí øàã íà íàøåì ïóòè ê òîìó, ÷òîáû ñäåëàòü ïðåññó ÷åñòíîé, - ñêàçàë Êàðñåíòè â èíòåðâüþ Åâðåéñêîìó òåëåãðàôíîìó àãåíòñòâó (JTA). - Ôðàíöóçñêèå ÑÌÈ íàõîäèò ëþáóþ âîçìîæíîñòü, ÷òîáû îáðèñîâàòü Èçðàèëü â îòðèöàòåëüíîì ñâåòå, è, õîòÿ ÿ îäåðæàë ïîáåäó â ñóäå, óùåðá óæå áûë íàíåñåí».

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Òempora mutantur et nos mutamur in illis
Zabougornov
Äîáðûé Àäìèíèñòðàòîð (èíîãäà)


: 06.03.2005
: 12000
: Îáåð-ãðóïïåí-äîöåíò, ñò. ðóêîâîäèòåëü ãðóïïû ñêîðîñòíûõ ñâèíãåðîâ, îí æå Çàáàøëåâè÷ Îöààò Ïîýëåâè÷

: , 17 2010, 10:49:40     :

Esti ():
Ôðàíöóçñêèé ñóä: ôèëüì î ãèáåëè ïàëåñòèíñêîãî ìàëü÷èêà Ìîõàììåäà àä-Äóðû «êëåâåòíè÷åñêèé» è «íåîáúåêòèâíûé»
:
Ôðàíöóçñêèé ñóä ïðèçíàë ïðîäåìîíñòðèðîâàííûé ïî ìåñòíîìó ÷àñòíîìó òåëåêàíàëó Canal + äîêóìåíòàëüíûé ôèëüì î ÿêîáû ãèáåëè ïàëåñòèíñêîãî ìàëü÷èêà Ìîõàììåäà àä-Äóðû îò îãíÿ ñîëäàò ÖÀÕÀËà «êëåâåòíè÷åñêèì» è «íåîáúåêòèâíûì». Ñóä ïîñòàíîâèë, ÷òî òåëåêàíàë íå äîëæåí èñïîëüçîâàòü èìåþùóþñÿ èíôîðìàöèþ äëÿ òîãî, ÷òîáû ñäåëàòü êàðòèíó áîëåå ñáàëàíñèðîâàííîé è òî÷íîé.

Äîêóìåíòàëüíûé ôèëüì áûë ïîêàçàí çà ìåñÿö äî âûíåñåíèÿ ñóäåáíîãî âåðäèêòà ïî ïåðâîíà÷àëüíîìó èñêó, ïîäàííîìó Ôèëèïïîì Êàðñåíòè ïðîòèâ 2-ãî êàíàëà ôðàíöóçñêîãî òåëåâèäåíèÿ, òðàíñëèðîâàâøåãî êàäðû, íà êîòîðûõ ìàëü÷èê áóäòî áû ãèáíåò â ïåðåñòðåëêå ìåæäó ïàëåñòèíñêèìè áîåâèêàìè è èçðàèëüñêèìè ñîëäàòàìè. Èíöèäåíò ïðîèçîøåë â Ãàçå â 2000 ãîäó.

 ãèáåëè ìàëü÷èêà ñðàçó áûë îáâèíåí ÖÀÕÀË, êîòîðûé ïîíà÷àëó äàæå ýòîãî íå îòðèöàë. Ñ òåõ ïîð Ìîõàììåä àä-Äóðà ñòàë âî âñåì ìèðå ñèìâîëîì ïàëåñòèíñêîãî ñîïðîòèâëåíèÿ «èçðàèëüñêèì îêêóïàíòàì», â åãî ÷åñòü íàçâàíû óëèöû è ïëîùàäè, âûïóùåíû ìàðêè ñ åãî èçîáðàæåíèåì, î íåì ñíÿòû ôèëüìû, íàïèñàíû êíèãè.

Êàíàë France 2 ïîäàë â ñóä íà Êàðñåíòè, óòâåðæäàâøåãî, ÷òî êàäðû áûëè ñôàëüñèôèöèðîâàíû, îáâèíÿÿ åãî â êëåâåòå, îäíàêî âåñíîé 2008 ãîäà Àïåëëÿöèîííûé ñóä â Ïàðèæå ñíÿë ñ Êàðñåíòè îáâèíåíèÿ, îòìåíèâ ïðèãîâîð ïðîòèâ íåãî.

 òðàíñëÿöèè France 2 óòâåðæäàëîñü, ÷òî àä-Äóðà áûë óáèò â ðåçóëüòàòå èçðàèëüñêîãî îáñòðåëà. Íî ïîñëåäóþùåå ðàññëåäîâàíèå, ïðîâåäåííîå â Èçðàèëå, è äîïîëíèòåëüíûå êàäðû, íå ïðîäåìîíñòðèðîâàííûå íà ôðàíöóçñêîì òåëåâèäåíèè, íî ïðèñóòñòâîâàâøèå íà îðèãèíàëüíîé ïëåíêå, ïîêàçàëè, êàê «óáèòûé» ïîäíèìàåò ãîëîâó è îòêðûâàåò ãëàçà, ñëîâíî âîñêðåñàÿ èç ìåðòâûõ. Ýòè êàäðû ïîñòàâèëè ïîä ñîìíåíèå âñþ ïðîïàãàíäèñòñêè ðàñêðó÷åííóþ èñòîðèþ ñ ìíèìîé ãèáåëüþ ïàëåñòèíñêîãî ìàëü÷èêà.

«Ýòà ïîáåäà â ñóäå – ëèøü åùå îäèí øàã íà íàøåì ïóòè ê òîìó, ÷òîáû ñäåëàòü ïðåññó ÷åñòíîé, - ñêàçàë Êàðñåíòè â èíòåðâüþ Åâðåéñêîìó òåëåãðàôíîìó àãåíòñòâó (JTA). - Ôðàíöóçñêèå ÑÌÈ íàõîäèò ëþáóþ âîçìîæíîñòü, ÷òîáû îáðèñîâàòü Èçðàèëü â îòðèöàòåëüíîì ñâåòå, è, õîòÿ ÿ îäåðæàë ïîáåäó â ñóäå, óùåðá óæå áûë íàíåñåí».

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_al-Durrah
Îáñóæäàÿ äàííûé èíöèäåíò íóæíî ïðåæäå âñåãî çíàòü ÷òî Ìîõàììåä äåéñòâèòåëüíî ïîãèá, èìååòñÿ ñâèäåòåëüñòâo î ñìåðòè. Ïîãèá îí îò îãíåñòðåëüíûõ (ïóëåâûõ) ðàíåíèé, äàííûå àóòîïñèè îïóáëèêîâàíû. Ïîãèá îí â ðåçóëüòàòå ïåðåñòðåëêè ìåæäû Öàõàëåì è ïàëåñòèíñêîé ïîëèöèåé.

Îò ÷üåé ïóëè ïîãèá ìàëü÷èê äåéñòâèòåëüíî äî ñèõ ïîð äîïîäëèííî íåèçâåñòíî. Íî ìàëü÷èê ïðÿòàëñÿ ïîä ñòåíîé çäàíèÿ ïàëåñòèíñêîé ïîëèöèè, à Öàõàëü ñòðåëàë ïî ïàëåñòèíñêîé ïîëèöèè, ýòîãî òîæå íèêòî íå îòðèöàåò.

France 2 äåéñòâèòåëüíî îòðåàë ïîñëåäíèå íåñêîëüêî ñåêóíä çàïèñè, ãäå âèäíû äâèæåíèÿ ðóêè ìàëü÷èêà. Íó è ÷òî? ×òî ýòî ìåíÿåò? Ñðàçó ìàëü÷èê óìåð èëè ñêîí÷àëñÿ ïîçäíåå îò ïîëó÷åííûõ ðàí, ÷òî ýòî ìåíÿåò ïî ñóòè äåëà?

Ñæóëüíè÷àë France 2, íå ïîêàçàâ ïîñëåäíèå êàäðû, èëè æå îòðåçàë ïîñëåäíèå êàäðû ïî ýòè÷åñêèì ñîîáðàæåíèÿì - ÷òî ýòî ìåíÿåò ïî ñóòè äåëà? ×òî, Öàõàëü îò ýòîãî ïðåäñòà¸ò â áîëåå âûãîäíîì ñâåòå è âñÿ âèíà çà ãèáåëü ìàëü÷èêà ëîæèòñÿ íà ïàëåñòèíöåâ?
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A la guerre comme a la guerre èëè âòîðàÿ ðåäàêöèÿ Çàáóãîðíîâà


: Zabougornov (, 17 2010, 12:03:12), 1
Zabougornov
Äîáðûé Àäìèíèñòðàòîð (èíîãäà)


: 06.03.2005
: 12000
: Îáåð-ãðóïïåí-äîöåíò, ñò. ðóêîâîäèòåëü ãðóïïû ñêîðîñòíûõ ñâèíãåðîâ, îí æå Çàáàøëåâè÷ Îöààò Ïîýëåâè÷

: , 17 2010, 12:01:56     :

Esti ():
Ôðàíöóçñêèé ñóä: ôèëüì î ãèáåëè ïàëåñòèíñêîãî ìàëü÷èêà Ìîõàììåäà àä-Äóðû «êëåâåòíè÷åñêèé» è «íåîáúåêòèâíûé»
:
Ôðàíöóçñêèé ñóä ïðèçíàë ïðîäåìîíñòðèðîâàííûé ïî ìåñòíîìó ÷àñòíîìó òåëåêàíàëó Canal + äîêóìåíòàëüíûé ôèëüì î ÿêîáû ãèáåëè ïàëåñòèíñêîãî ìàëü÷èêà Ìîõàììåäà àä-Äóðû îò îãíÿ ñîëäàò ÖÀÕÀËà «êëåâåòíè÷åñêèì» è «íåîáúåêòèâíûì». Ñóä ïîñòàíîâèë, ÷òî òåëåêàíàë íå äîëæåí èñïîëüçîâàòü èìåþùóþñÿ èíôîðìàöèþ äëÿ òîãî, ÷òîáû ñäåëàòü êàðòèíó áîëåå ñáàëàíñèðîâàííîé è òî÷íîé.

Äîêóìåíòàëüíûé ôèëüì áûë ïîêàçàí çà ìåñÿö äî âûíåñåíèÿ ñóäåáíîãî âåðäèêòà ïî ïåðâîíà÷àëüíîìó èñêó, ïîäàííîìó Ôèëèïïîì Êàðñåíòè ïðîòèâ 2-ãî êàíàëà ôðàíöóçñêîãî òåëåâèäåíèÿ, òðàíñëèðîâàâøåãî êàäðû, íà êîòîðûõ ìàëü÷èê áóäòî áû ãèáíåò â ïåðåñòðåëêå ìåæäó ïàëåñòèíñêèìè áîåâèêàìè è èçðàèëüñêèìè ñîëäàòàìè. Èíöèäåíò ïðîèçîøåë â Ãàçå â 2000 ãîäó.

 ãèáåëè ìàëü÷èêà ñðàçó áûë îáâèíåí ÖÀÕÀË, êîòîðûé ïîíà÷àëó äàæå ýòîãî íå îòðèöàë. Ñ òåõ ïîð Ìîõàììåä àä-Äóðà ñòàë âî âñåì ìèðå ñèìâîëîì ïàëåñòèíñêîãî ñîïðîòèâëåíèÿ «èçðàèëüñêèì îêêóïàíòàì», â åãî ÷åñòü íàçâàíû óëèöû è ïëîùàäè, âûïóùåíû ìàðêè ñ åãî èçîáðàæåíèåì, î íåì ñíÿòû ôèëüìû, íàïèñàíû êíèãè.

Êàíàë France 2 ïîäàë â ñóä íà Êàðñåíòè, óòâåðæäàâøåãî, ÷òî êàäðû áûëè ñôàëüñèôèöèðîâàíû, îáâèíÿÿ åãî â êëåâåòå, îäíàêî âåñíîé 2008 ãîäà Àïåëëÿöèîííûé ñóä â Ïàðèæå ñíÿë ñ Êàðñåíòè îáâèíåíèÿ, îòìåíèâ ïðèãîâîð ïðîòèâ íåãî.

 òðàíñëÿöèè France 2 óòâåðæäàëîñü, ÷òî àä-Äóðà áûë óáèò â ðåçóëüòàòå èçðàèëüñêîãî îáñòðåëà. Íî ïîñëåäóþùåå ðàññëåäîâàíèå, ïðîâåäåííîå â Èçðàèëå, è äîïîëíèòåëüíûå êàäðû, íå ïðîäåìîíñòðèðîâàííûå íà ôðàíöóçñêîì òåëåâèäåíèè, íî ïðèñóòñòâîâàâøèå íà îðèãèíàëüíîé ïëåíêå, ïîêàçàëè, êàê «óáèòûé» ïîäíèìàåò ãîëîâó è îòêðûâàåò ãëàçà, ñëîâíî âîñêðåñàÿ èç ìåðòâûõ. Ýòè êàäðû ïîñòàâèëè ïîä ñîìíåíèå âñþ ïðîïàãàíäèñòñêè ðàñêðó÷åííóþ èñòîðèþ ñ ìíèìîé ãèáåëüþ ïàëåñòèíñêîãî ìàëü÷èêà.

«Ýòà ïîáåäà â ñóäå – ëèøü åùå îäèí øàã íà íàøåì ïóòè ê òîìó, ÷òîáû ñäåëàòü ïðåññó ÷åñòíîé, - ñêàçàë Êàðñåíòè â èíòåðâüþ Åâðåéñêîìó òåëåãðàôíîìó àãåíòñòâó (JTA). - Ôðàíöóçñêèå ÑÌÈ íàõîäèò ëþáóþ âîçìîæíîñòü, ÷òîáû îáðèñîâàòü Èçðàèëü â îòðèöàòåëüíîì ñâåòå, è, õîòÿ ÿ îäåðæàë ïîáåäó â ñóäå, óùåðá óæå áûë íàíåñåí».

À âîò ïûòàòüñÿ âûäàòü àãîíèþ áåäíîãî ðåá¸íêà çà "âîñêðåøåíèå èç ì¸ðòâûõ" Zman.com íå êðàñèò. Ñîâñåì íå êðàñèò... Íåäàðîì zman.com àâòîðà íå óêàçàë...

Òàêèå êîììåíòàðèè ëèøü äîáàâëÿþò íåíàâèñòè ê Èçðàèëþ.

 ðåçóëüòàòå äîñòèãàåòñÿ öåëü, ïðÿìî ïðîòèâîïîëîæíàÿ çàÿâëåííîé: ïðîòèâîñòîÿòü àíòè-èçðàèëüñêîé ïðîïàãàíäå.
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A la guerre comme a la guerre èëè âòîðàÿ ðåäàêöèÿ Çàáóãîðíîâà
Esti



: 22.01.2006
: 904

: , 17 2010, 12:11:30     :

:
Òàêèå êîììåíòàðèè ëèøü äîáàâëÿþò íåíàâèñòè ê Èçðàèëþ.

 ðåçóëüòàòå äîñòèãàåòñÿ öåëü, ïðÿìî ïðîòèâîïîëîæíàÿ çàÿâëåííîé: ïðîòèâîñòîÿòü àíòè-èçðàèëüñêîé ïðîïàãàíäå.

õîòü íà ãîëîâó ìàñëî ëåé, âñå ñêàæåò: ìàëî.... (ñ)

Ãîòîâüñÿ, Çàáóãîðíîâ, ñêîðî âñåîáùèé ïðèçûâ. Ìîæåò íàì ïîâåçåò è òåáÿ íàçíà÷àò îòâåòñòâåííûì ïðîòèâîñòîÿòü àíòè-èçðàèëüñêîé ïðîïàãàíäå.
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Òempora mutantur et nos mutamur in illis
Zabougornov
Äîáðûé Àäìèíèñòðàòîð (èíîãäà)


: 06.03.2005
: 12000
: Îáåð-ãðóïïåí-äîöåíò, ñò. ðóêîâîäèòåëü ãðóïïû ñêîðîñòíûõ ñâèíãåðîâ, îí æå Çàáàøëåâè÷ Îöààò Ïîýëåâè÷

: , 17 2010, 13:59:23     :

Esti ():
:
Òàêèå êîììåíòàðèè ëèøü äîáàâëÿþò íåíàâèñòè ê Èçðàèëþ.

 ðåçóëüòàòå äîñòèãàåòñÿ öåëü, ïðÿìî ïðîòèâîïîëîæíàÿ çàÿâëåííîé: ïðîòèâîñòîÿòü àíòè-èçðàèëüñêîé ïðîïàãàíäå.

õîòü íà ãîëîâó ìàñëî ëåé, âñå ñêàæåò: ìàëî.... (ñ)

Ãîòîâüñÿ, Çàáóãîðíîâ, ñêîðî âñåîáùèé ïðèçûâ. Ìîæåò íàì ïîâåçåò è òåáÿ íàçíà÷àò îòâåòñòâåííûì ïðîòèâîñòîÿòü àíòè-èçðàèëüñêîé ïðîïàãàíäå.

×òî çà ïðèçûâ?
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A la guerre comme a la guerre èëè âòîðàÿ ðåäàêöèÿ Çàáóãîðíîâà
Sobesednik



: 16.04.2006
: 234

: , 17 2010, 14:05:59     :

Esti ():
:
Òàêèå êîììåíòàðèè ëèøü äîáàâëÿþò íåíàâèñòè ê Èçðàèëþ.

 ðåçóëüòàòå äîñòèãàåòñÿ öåëü, ïðÿìî ïðîòèâîïîëîæíàÿ çàÿâëåííîé: ïðîòèâîñòîÿòü àíòè-èçðàèëüñêîé ïðîïàãàíäå.

õîòü íà ãîëîâó ìàñëî ëåé, âñå ñêàæåò: ìàëî.... (ñ)

Ãîòîâüñÿ, Çàáóãîðíîâ, ñêîðî âñåîáùèé ïðèçûâ. Ìîæåò íàì ïîâåçåò è òåáÿ íàçíà÷àò îòâåòñòâåííûì ïðîòèâîñòîÿòü àíòè-èçðàèëüñêîé ïðîïàãàíäå.

Åñòü ïðèñêàçêà ïî÷¸ò÷å: "õîòü ññû â ãëàçà- âñ¸ Áîæüÿ ðîñà"
Zabougornov
Äîáðûé Àäìèíèñòðàòîð (èíîãäà)


: 06.03.2005
: 12000
: Îáåð-ãðóïïåí-äîöåíò, ñò. ðóêîâîäèòåëü ãðóïïû ñêîðîñòíûõ ñâèíãåðîâ, îí æå Çàáàøëåâè÷ Îöààò Ïîýëåâè÷

: , 17 2010, 14:57:40     :

Sobesednik ():

Åñòü ïðèñêàçêà ïî÷¸ò÷å: "õîòü ññû â ãëàçà- âñ¸ Áîæüÿ ðîñà"

Ýòî òû î êîì?
_________________
A la guerre comme a la guerre èëè âòîðàÿ ðåäàêöèÿ Çàáóãîðíîâà
Thais



: 10.03.2005
: 2238
: Kaliningrad-Petersburg-Paris

: , 17 2010, 21:52:34     :

Òà ëàäíà âàì. Ñêîëüêî åâðååâ, ñòîëüêî è ìíåíèé. Cool Ó òîãî ìàëü÷èêà íèêòî èç âàñ ëè÷íî æ ïóëüñ íå ùóïàë. À ïðîïàãàíäèñòñêèå ìàøèíêè è ñ òîé, è ñ äðóãîé ñòîðîíû èñïðàâíî ðàáîòàþò. Cool
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Âîò òàê ýòî ïðîèñõîäèò. Âàì õî÷åòñÿ ñ êåì-òî ïîäðóæèòüñÿ. Ðàçãîâàðèâàòü âàì íåîõîòà, âñòðå÷àòüñÿ ëåíü, çâîíèòü íåêîãäà, òóñîâàòüñÿ íàäîåëî, óæèíàòü òÿæåëî, ïðèõîäèòü ñî ñâîåé äèåòîé - íåýòè÷íî, ñïàòü è ëåæàòü ñ âàìè â øèðîêîì ñìûñëå íîâûå äðóçüÿ îòêàçûâàþòñÿ, ìîë÷àòü ñ âàìè èì íå î ÷åì.  îáùåì, äðóæèòü íàäî áûëî ðàíüøå. (Ì. Æâàíåöêèé)
Zabougornov
Äîáðûé Àäìèíèñòðàòîð (èíîãäà)


: 06.03.2005
: 12000
: Îáåð-ãðóïïåí-äîöåíò, ñò. ðóêîâîäèòåëü ãðóïïû ñêîðîñòíûõ ñâèíãåðîâ, îí æå Çàáàøëåâè÷ Îöààò Ïîýëåâè÷

: , 18 2010, 15:57:29     :

Zabougornov ():
Sobesednik ():

Åñòü ïðèñêàçêà ïî÷¸ò÷å: "õîòü ññû â ãëàçà- âñ¸ Áîæüÿ ðîñà"

Ýòî òû î êîì?

Åù¸ ðàç ïðîøó òåáÿ îòâåòèòü (â òå÷åíèå íåäåëè) íà ìîé âîïðîñ.
_________________
A la guerre comme a la guerre èëè âòîðàÿ ðåäàêöèÿ Çàáóãîðíîâà
Zabougornov
Äîáðûé Àäìèíèñòðàòîð (èíîãäà)


: 06.03.2005
: 12000
: Îáåð-ãðóïïåí-äîöåíò, ñò. ðóêîâîäèòåëü ãðóïïû ñêîðîñòíûõ ñâèíãåðîâ, îí æå Çàáàøëåâè÷ Îöààò Ïîýëåâè÷

: , 28 2010, 16:33:23     :

Zabougornov ():
Zabougornov ():
Sobesednik ():

Åñòü ïðèñêàçêà ïî÷¸ò÷å: "õîòü ññû â ãëàçà- âñ¸ Áîæüÿ ðîñà"

Ýòî òû î êîì?

Åù¸ ðàç ïðîøó òåáÿ îòâåòèòü (â òå÷åíèå íåäåëè) íà ìîé âîïðîñ.

Òû íå îòâåòèë íà ìîé âîïðîñ. ß ïðèíèìàþ ýòî âûñêàçûâàíèå â ñâîé àäðåñ è æäó èçâèíåíèé.
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A la guerre comme a la guerre èëè âòîðàÿ ðåäàêöèÿ Çàáóãîðíîâà
koshka



: 24.05.2006
: 876
: Israel,Mexico,Israel

: , 29 2010, 16:28:48     :

Zabougornov ():
ß ïðèíèìàþ ýòî âûñêàçûâàíèå â ñâîé àäðåñ è æäó èçâèíåíèé.

Smile Äåòñêèé ñàä. Âåñü íàðîä Èçðàèëÿ äîëæåí èçâèíèòüñÿ ïåðåä Çàáóãîðíîâûì... Èíà÷å áóäåò íàì "ìóòíàÿ" êðèòèêà Smile.
koshka



: 24.05.2006
: 876
: Israel,Mexico,Israel

: , 29 2010, 16:47:36     :

Ýòî ñîîáùåíèå äîëæíî áûòü â ýòîé òåìå, à íå â ïîäâàëå. Smile

Esti ():
Ãîòîâüñÿ, Çàáóãîðíîâ, ñêîðî âñåîáùèé ïðèçûâ. Ìîæåò íàì ïîâåçåò è òåáÿ íàçíà÷àò îòâåòñòâåííûì ïðîòèâîñòîÿòü àíòè-èçðàèëüñêîé ïðîïàãàíäå.

À ïî÷åìó ìîæåò Smile? Åðóíäà, êîòîðóþ âûâåøèâàåò Çàáóãîðíîâ ðàáîòàåò ñ òî÷íîñòüþ äî íàîîáîðîò Smile. Ãëàâíîå äîâåñòè êîëè÷åñòâî âûâåøèâàåìîé ìóòè äî àáñóðäà. Îòëè÷íûé ñïîñîá Smile! Çàáóãîðíîâ ñïðàâëÿåòñÿ Smile
Zabougornov
Äîáðûé Àäìèíèñòðàòîð (èíîãäà)


: 06.03.2005
: 12000
: Îáåð-ãðóïïåí-äîöåíò, ñò. ðóêîâîäèòåëü ãðóïïû ñêîðîñòíûõ ñâèíãåðîâ, îí æå Çàáàøëåâè÷ Îöààò Ïîýëåâè÷

: , 21 2010, 14:25:25     :

Ëîâîê, ÷¸ðò!

Ðåáå ñïðàøèâàþò: Ïî÷åìó âû íå õîòèòå ÷òîáû ñâåòñêèå ïðåäìåòû ïðåïîäàâàëèñü â âàøèõ ðåëèãèîçíûõ øêîëàõ? È äàëüøå: áëà-áëà, òî÷êà çðåíèÿ êîððåñïîíäåíòà íà âîïðîñ.

Ðåáå îòâå÷àåò: Íó è â ÷¸ì ïðîáëåìà íàéòè ðàáîòó? Êòî õî÷åò òîò âñåãäà ìîæåò ýòî ñäåëàòü!

Êîððåñïîíäåíò: Íî, Ðåáå, âåäü ñåãîäíÿ íåîáõîäèìî çíàíèå àíãëèéñêîãî è ìàòåìàòèêè!

Ðåáå:  ñàìîì äåëå? Òîò êòî íå çíàåò àíãëèéñêîãî è ìàòåìàòèêè íå ìîæåò íàéòè ðàáîòó? Åìó âñ¸ ýòî äåéñòâèòåëüíî íóæíî? ß íè÷åãî íå çíàþ îá ýòîì!

Êðóòî ðàçâîäèò! ×èñòàÿ ðàáîòà!

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/business/the-new-haredim-educated-surfing-soldiers-in-the-army-1.314897
The new Haredim / Educated, surfing soldiers in the army
On the one hand, the rabbinic and political leadership is trying with all its might to preserve the principle of separateness, even to the point of not having an idea about how Western society works. On the other hand, the ultra-Orthodox community is no longer a small and conformist community.
By Nati Tucker

He is one of the best-known rabbis in the Haredi world. Short with a gray beard - and always with a book in his hand, his word has a huge influence on vast sections of the ultra-Orthodox world. His aide asked me to drive him home after we had both made a short consolation visit to a house in mourning.

During the drive I asked him, "Rabbi, why aren't you willing to have core [non-religious] subjects taught in Haredi schools? After all, for generations fathers have been required to teach their sons a trade. Isn't it clear we also have to work?"

"Nu, and what's the problem with going out and getting a job?" he answered. "Whoever wants to work always can do so."

"But rabbi," I replied, "in today's world, to make a living you need basic knowledge such as English and math."

"Really?" he said, looking at me in surprise. "Whoever doesn't know math and English can't find a job? You really need all that? I didn't know."

That conversation reveals the complexity underlying the Haredi world. On the one hand, the rabbinic and political leadership is trying with all its might to preserve the principle of separateness, even to the point of not having an idea about how Western society works. The goal is to do everything possible to prevent young Haredim from desiring the permissive world of the non-religious - even at the price of poverty.

On the other hand, the ultra-Orthodox community is no longer a small and conformist community. Under the surface, things are starting to boil over. The poverty is already unbearable, and more people are saying that such a large group of men can no longer be locked up in study halls all day. Worst of all, a Haredi middle class is developing that keeps its old ways but occasionally wants to enjoy the pleasures of the world.

In Bnei Brak they have never heard of the OECD, or of the organization's recommendations on workforce participation in Israel. But many young Haredim no longer see themselves as an integral part of the Haredi world. They are the new Haredim. They are getting an education, serving in the Israel Defense Forces - in special frameworks - living comfortable lives, and may God have mercy, they are even surfing the Internet.

How can we calm the tension between the Haredi leadership and the masses? How can we find the proper path to encourage Haredi employment - an effective path that does not inflame the leadership and set off a war both sides will lose?

Normal methods of reward and punishment won't work here. For such a delicate balance we need a new formula. We need not a carrot and a stick but more like a baby carrot and a toothpick.

The principle is to tempt, to strike very gently - instead of an all-out war over core studies or threats of cutting off funds to Haredi institutions. It's possible to get a lot done by acting with understanding. We can deal with specific problem areas such as Haredi towns with high unemployment, instead of using huge government subsidies to encourage employment.

The discussion with central bank chief Stanley Fischer was a first step in this direction, while a petition to the High Court of Justice over core studies is a big stick - one that could make the whole solution fall apart, and one the Haredim are quite used to.
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A la guerre comme a la guerre èëè âòîðàÿ ðåäàêöèÿ Çàáóãîðíîâà
Loanka



: 06.04.2006
: 3745
: Paris

: , 21 2010, 16:38:06     :

Zabougornov ():
Ðåáå:  ñàìîì äåëå? Òîò êòî íå çíàåò àíãëèéñêîãî è ìàòåìàòèêè íå ìîæåò íàéòè ðàáîòó? Åìó âñ¸ ýòî äåéñòâèòåëüíî íóæíî? ß íè÷åãî íå çíàþ îá ýòîì!


Äà îí ïðàâ, âåäü ãîðàçäî ïðîáëåìíåå òå, êòî çíàåò è àíãëèéñêèé è ìàòåìàòèêó, è íå ìîæåò íàéòè ðàáîòó. Laughing
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Ó÷åíüå — ñâåò, à íåó÷åíüå — ïðèÿòíûé ïîëóìðàê. (ñ) Æâàíåöêèé
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