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Sobesednik



: 16.04.2006
: 234

: , 19 2007, 14:33:18     :

Åñòü â ýòîì áîëüøîì ìèðå Áîëüøàÿ Ñòðàíà, êîòîðàÿ íèêîãäà íå äîïóñòèò ìèðà íà Áëèæíåì Âîñòîêå. Ïîòîìó ÷òî, åñëè ìèð â ýòîì ðåãèîíå âñ¸-òàêè ñëó÷èòñÿ, â Áîëüøîé Ñòðàíå íå áóäåò ñðåäñòâ íà íîðìàëüíîå ñóùåñòâîâàíèå. Ïîýòîìó Áîëüøàÿ Ñòðàíà äîáú¸òñÿ, ÷òîáû âîéíà çäåñü îáÿçàòåëüíî ñîñòîÿëàñü, êàê äåëàëà ýòî íåîäíîêðàòíî â ïðîøëîì è íàñòîÿùåì. Èáî öåíû íà íåôòü è ñáûò îðóæèÿ áåñïîêîèò Áîëüøóþ Ñòðàíó íàìíîãî áîëüøå, ÷åì öåíà åâðåéñêîé, ìóñóëüìàíñêîé, õðèñòèàíñêîé, äà âîîáùåì ëþáîé, êðîâè, î êîòîðîé ïîòîì ìîæíî ïîïëàêàòü êðîêîäèëüèìè, áîëüøèìè, êàê ñàìà ñòðàíà, ñëåçàìè...
Thais



: 10.03.2005
: 2238
: Kaliningrad-Petersburg-Paris

: , 22 2007, 15:09:47     :

Ýòî òà ñàìàÿ Áîëüøàÿ ñòðàíà, êîòîðàÿ "In God we trust"? Rolling Eyes
_________________
Âîò òàê ýòî ïðîèñõîäèò. Âàì õî÷åòñÿ ñ êåì-òî ïîäðóæèòüñÿ. Ðàçãîâàðèâàòü âàì íåîõîòà, âñòðå÷àòüñÿ ëåíü, çâîíèòü íåêîãäà, òóñîâàòüñÿ íàäîåëî, óæèíàòü òÿæåëî, ïðèõîäèòü ñî ñâîåé äèåòîé - íåýòè÷íî, ñïàòü è ëåæàòü ñ âàìè â øèðîêîì ñìûñëå íîâûå äðóçüÿ îòêàçûâàþòñÿ, ìîë÷àòü ñ âàìè èì íå î ÷åì.  îáùåì, äðóæèòü íàäî áûëî ðàíüøå. (Ì. Æâàíåöêèé)
Zabougornov
Äîáðûé Àäìèíèñòðàòîð (èíîãäà)


: 06.03.2005
: 12000
: Îáåð-ãðóïïåí-äîöåíò, ñò. ðóêîâîäèòåëü ãðóïïû ñêîðîñòíûõ ñâèíãåðîâ, îí æå Çàáàøëåâè÷ Îöààò Ïîýëåâè÷

: , 22 2007, 15:22:18     :

Thais ():
Ýòî òà ñàìàÿ Áîëüøàÿ ñòðàíà, êîòîðàÿ "In God we trust"? Rolling Eyes

Tccc....Big Brother is watching you....right now.....
_________________
A la guerre comme a la guerre èëè âòîðàÿ ðåäàêöèÿ Çàáóãîðíîâà
Sobesednik



: 16.04.2006
: 234

: , 22 2007, 21:30:02     :

Thais ():
Ýòî òà ñàìàÿ Áîëüøàÿ ñòðàíà, êîòîðàÿ "In God we trust"? Rolling Eyes

Wrong...
Loanka



: 06.04.2006
: 3745
: Paris

: , 23 2007, 06:11:34     :

Laughing Laughing Laughing
Ðåáÿòà, âû ðåøèëè ïîìåðÿòüñÿ, ó êîãî ïðîïàãàíäà ñèëüíåå è óáåäèòåëüíåé? Laughing
_________________
Ó÷åíüå — ñâåò, à íåó÷åíüå — ïðèÿòíûé ïîëóìðàê. (ñ) Æâàíåöêèé
Sobesednik



: 16.04.2006
: 234

: , 23 2007, 11:20:05     :

Loanka ():
Laughing Laughing Laughing
Ðåáÿòà, âû ðåøèëè ïîìåðÿòüñÿ, ó êîãî ïðîïàãàíäà ñèëüíåå è óáåäèòåëüíåé? Laughing

Äà Áîæå óïàñè...
Âîîáùå-òî, õîòåëîñü âûïëåñíóòü íàáîëåâøåå. Äèñêóññèÿ íå ïðåäóñìàòðèâàëàñü.
Loanka



: 06.04.2006
: 3745
: Paris

: , 24 2007, 08:26:22     :

Sobesednik ():
Äà Áîæå óïàñè...
Âîîáùå-òî, õîòåëîñü âûïëåñíóòü íàáîëåâøåå. Äèñêóññèÿ íå ïðåäóñìàòðèâàëàñü.

Laughing Îé ëè?.. Wink
_________________
Ó÷åíüå — ñâåò, à íåó÷åíüå — ïðèÿòíûé ïîëóìðàê. (ñ) Æâàíåöêèé
Esti



: 22.01.2006
: 904

: , 24 2007, 11:13:51     :

Ñïîðüòå-íå ñïîðüòå, à â íîâîñòÿõ 13:00 ïåðåäàëè ñëåäóþùåå

:
אולמרט: רוסיה מבקשת להשתלב בתהליך המדיני
13:03
24.06.2007

בישיבת הממשלה סיפר ראש הממשלה אהוד אולמרט, כי רוסיה מבקשת להשתלב בתהליך המדיני באזור, וכי "בכוונתה לשמש שחקן חשוב בזירה". בקול ישראל דווח, כי שר החוץ של רוסיה יבוא השבוע לבקר בישראל ולדברי אולמרט, יש להערך לביקור.

Çàãîëîâîê-
"Îëüìåðò: Ðîññèÿ ïðîñèò áûòü ó÷àñòíèöåé óðåãóëèðîâàíèÿ íà Áëèæíåì Âîñòîêå."

Ñîððè, óáåãàþ! Íàäåþñü, Ñîáåñåäíèê è ïåðåâåäåò è òåìêå íå äàñò çàñîõíóòü... Cool
_________________
Òempora mutantur et nos mutamur in illis
Zabougornov
Äîáðûé Àäìèíèñòðàòîð (èíîãäà)


: 06.03.2005
: 12000
: Îáåð-ãðóïïåí-äîöåíò, ñò. ðóêîâîäèòåëü ãðóïïû ñêîðîñòíûõ ñâèíãåðîâ, îí æå Çàáàøëåâè÷ Îöààò Ïîýëåâè÷

: , 24 2007, 17:26:10     :

"Îëüìåðò: Ðîññèÿ ïðîñèò áûòü ó÷àñòíèöåé óðåãóëèðîâàíèÿ íà Áëèæíåì Âîñòîêå."

http://www.newsru.co.il/israel/24jun2007/lavrov8006.html
Íó ÿ äóìàþ ÷òî òàêàÿ ôîðìóëèðîâêà - Ðîññèÿ "ïðîñèò", è íå ïðîñòî ïðîñèò à ïðîñèò ó ñàìîãî Îëüìåðòà - èñïîëüçóåòñÿ ÷òîáû ïîòðàôèòü íàñòðîåíèÿì â äóõå "Âåëèêîãî Èçðàèëÿ". Ìû ìîë òàêèå êðóòûå è âàæíûå, ÷òî ìîë äàæå Ðîññèÿ ó íàñ "ïðîñèò". ×èñòî ïðîïàãàíäèñòñêèé õîä.

Èä¸ò îáû÷íàÿ ïîëèòè÷åñêàÿ è äèïëîìàòè÷åñêàÿ èãðà. Ðîññèÿ ðàçâèâàåò îòíîøåíèÿ è ñ Èçðàèëåì è ñ Ïàëåñòèíñêîé àâòîíîìèåé. Èçðàèëü â ñâîþ î÷åðåäü ðàçâèâàåò îòíîøåíèÿ è ñ Ïàëåñòèíñêîé àâòîíîìèåé (Ìàõìóä Àááàñ), è ñ Ðîññèåé, íå ãîâîðÿ óæå î Øòàòàõ.

Íèêòî íè ó êîãî íè÷åãî íå ïðîñèò, êàæäûé áëþäåò ñâîé èíòåðåñ ñîðàçìåðÿÿñü ñ îáùèì áàëàíñîì ñèë â ðåãèîíå.
_________________
A la guerre comme a la guerre èëè âòîðàÿ ðåäàêöèÿ Çàáóãîðíîâà
Esti



: 22.01.2006
: 904

: , 25 2007, 09:36:54     :

Ïîõîæå íà "Îäíîãëàçûé, ñûãðàé íàì ïðî Àëÿñêó..."

Òîæå ïðîñüáà Twisted Evil
_________________
Òempora mutantur et nos mutamur in illis
Sobesednik



: 16.04.2006
: 234

: , 25 2007, 09:50:33     :

Zabougornov ():
"Îëüìåðò: Ðîññèÿ ïðîñèò áûòü ó÷àñòíèöåé óðåãóëèðîâàíèÿ íà Áëèæíåì Âîñòîêå."

Íó ÿ äóìàþ ÷òî òàêàÿ ôîðìóëèðîâêà - Ðîññèÿ "ïðîñèò", è íå ïðîñòî ïðîñèò à ïðîñèò ó ñàìîãî Îëüìåðòà - èñïîëüçóåòñÿ ÷òîáû ïîòðàôèòü íàñòðîåíèÿì â äóõå "Âåëèêîãî Èçðàèëÿ". Ìû ìîë òàêèå êðóòûå è âàæíûå, ÷òî ìîë äàæå Ðîññèÿ ó íàñ "ïðîñèò". ×èñòî ïðîïàãàíäèñòñêèé õîä.

Íèêòî íè ó êîãî íè÷åãî íå ïðîñèò, êàæäûé áëþäåò ñâîé èíòåðåñ ñîðàçìåðÿÿñü ñ îáùèì áàëàíñîì ñèë â ðåãèîíå.


Ïîçâîëüòå, äîðîãîé âîæäü, ñ Âàìè íå ñîãëàñèòüñÿ...

Íà ñîâåñòè Ðîññèè ñòîëüêî ãðåõîâ (î÷åíü ìÿãêî âûðàæàÿñü) â îòíîøåíèè Èçðàèëÿ è âñåãî ðåãèîíà, ÷òî îíà íå ïðîñèòü- óìîëÿòü äîëæíà, ÷òîáû åé äàëè ïðèáëèçèòüñÿ ê âîïðîñàì óðåãóëèðîâàíèÿ çäåñü.

ß óáåæä¸í, ÷òî åñëè áû íå ðîññèéñêîå âìåøàòåëüñòâî, Áëèæíèé Âîñòîê äàâíî íàñëàæäàëñÿ áû ìèðîì è áëàãîäåíñòâèåì.

Ïîñóäèòå ñàìè.

Ðîññèÿ ñïðîâîöèðîâàëà øåñòèäíåâíóþ âîéíó, ñíàáäèâ ðàçâåäêè Èçðàèëÿ è àðàáñêèõ ñòðàí äåçèíôîðìàöèåé îá àãðåññèâíûõ íàìåðåíèÿõ îäíèõ ïðîòèâ äðóãèõ. Èíûìè ñëîâàìè- ïðîñòî ñòîëêíóëà ê âîéíå ñòîðîíû è íå äóìàâøèå âîåâàòü.
Íà ñ÷àñòüå Èçðàèëÿ è íà ãîðå àðàáñêèõ ñîñåäåé âîéíà çàêîí÷èëàñü òàê êàê çàêîí÷èëàñü.

Íà ýòîì äåëî íå çàêîí÷èëîñü...

Ñðàçó çà 6-òè äíåâíîé ïî ðîññèéñêîìó ñöåíàðèþ ðàçâåðíóëàñü ò.í. âîéíà íà èñòîùåíèå.
Îñíîâíûå äåéñòâèÿ ïðîèñõîäèëè â çîíå Ñóýöêîãî êàíàëà. Âîéíà çàêëþ÷àëàñü â ìåòîäè÷åñêèõ îáñòðåëàõ è áîìáàðäèðîâêàõ òåððèòîðèè Èçðàèëÿ, ãëàâíûì îáðàçîì, ñ Åãèïåòñêîé ñòîðîíû.
Èç Ðîññèè áûë îáåñïå÷åí áåñïðåðûâíûé ïîòîê îðóæèÿ è áîåïðèïàñîâ àðàáñêîé ñòîðîíå. Îêîëî 15000 ðîññèéñêèõ "âîèíîâ-èíòåðíàöèîíàëèñòîâ" ãðîìèëè ñèîíèñòñêîãî çâåðÿ.
Íà÷àëî êîíöà ýòîé ýïîïåè áûëî ñâÿçàíî ñ èíöèäåíòîì, êîãäà 4 ñîâåòñêèõ èñòðåáèòåëÿ, ïèëîòèðóåìûå êðàñíûìè ñîêîëàìè â íåðàâíîì âîçäóøíîì áîþ áûëè ñáèòû äâóìÿ èçðàèëüñêèìè áîìáàðäèðîâùèêàìè. Äîâåðèå àðàáîâ ê ñîâåòñêîìó îðóæèþ áûëî êðåïêî ïîäîðâàíî, áåççàâåòíàÿ ëþáîâü äàëà òðåùèíó...

Íî ñòðàíà ñîâåòîâ- íå òà ñòðàíà, êîòîðàÿ îòñòóïàåò ïåðåä òðóäíîñòÿìè è ïðîùàåò îáèäû...

Âîéíà Ñóäíîãî äíÿ 1973-ãî ãîäà äîëæíà áûëà ïðèíåñòè äîëãîæäàííûé ðåâàíø àðàáñêèì ñòðàíàì è âåðíóòü ïðåñòèæ ñîâåòñêîé âîåííîé íàóêå è âîîðóæåíèþ.

Ïî÷òè ïîëó÷èëîñü...
Êòî çíàåò, ÷òî áû áûëî, åñëè áû íàïðàâëÿåìûå ñîâåòñêèìè èíñòðóêòîðàìè ñèðèéñêèå âîéñêà íå ñòàëè óêðåïëÿòüñÿ íà çàõâà÷åííîì Ãîëàíñêîì ïëàöäàðìå, êàê òîãî òðåáîâàëà ñîâåòñêàÿ âîåííàÿ äîêòðèíà, à ïðîäîëæèëè áû íàñòóïëåíèå...

Íî, íåñìîòðÿ íà î÷åðåäíîé ïðîâàë ñîâåòñêîé ìèðíîé ìèññèè íà ÁÂ, ÑÑÑÐ ,áëàãîäàðÿ ýòîé âîéíå ñïàñëà ñâîþ áëèçêóþ ê êðàõó ýêîíîìèêó: â ðåçóëüòàòå ýìáàðãî, êîòîðîå îáüÿâèëè ñòðàíû ÎÏÅÊ íà ïîñòàâêó íåôòè â ñòðàíû, èìåþùèå êîíòàêòû ñ Èçðàèëåì, ïðèâåëî ê ñêà÷êó öåí íà íåôòü â 3 ðàçà.
Ýíåðãåòè÷åñêèé êðèçèñ çàñòàâèë ãíóòüñÿ ïåðåä ÑÑÑÐ äàæå çàêëÿòûõ âðàãîâ, â ïåðâóþ î÷åðåäü, ÑØÀ.

Ýòîò îïûò íå çàáûò ñîâåòàìè è ñåãîäíÿ, ïîýòîìó ïîâòîðþñü, ÷òî íåñòàáèëüíîñòü íà ÁÂ- ñòðàòåãè÷åñêèé èíòåðåñ ñåãîäíÿøíåé Ðîññèè.

Ïîñêîëüêó, ÿ íå óâåðåí, ÷òî ñìîãó çàêîí÷èòü ýòîò ïàìôëåò, òî ïðèâåäó ïðîìåæóòî÷íûé âûâîä.

Âñå ó÷àñòíèêè ïðîöåññà íà Á çíàþò, ÷åãî çäåñü âûèñêèâàåò Ðîññèÿ.  íàðÿäå ìèðîòâîðöà îíà âûãëÿäèò óðîäëèâî. Ïîýòîìó è ïðîñèò.

Íàáåð¸ìñÿ ìû åù¸ ãîðÿ îò áîðöîâ çà ìèð â ðîññèéñêîì êàìóôëÿæå...

Ïåðåðûâ...
Sobesednik



: 16.04.2006
: 234

: , 25 2007, 09:51:52     :

Loanka ():
Sobesednik ():
Äà Áîæå óïàñè...
Âîîáùå-òî, õîòåëîñü âûïëåñíóòü íàáîëåâøåå. Äèñêóññèÿ íå ïðåäóñìàòðèâàëàñü.

Laughing Îé ëè?.. Wink

Êàê â âîäó ãëÿäåëà...
Zabougornov
Äîáðûé Àäìèíèñòðàòîð (èíîãäà)


: 06.03.2005
: 12000
: Îáåð-ãðóïïåí-äîöåíò, ñò. ðóêîâîäèòåëü ãðóïïû ñêîðîñòíûõ ñâèíãåðîâ, îí æå Çàáàøëåâè÷ Îöààò Ïîýëåâè÷

: , 25 2007, 10:16:19     :

Sobesednik ():

Íà ñîâåñòè Ðîññèè ñòîëüêî ãðåõîâ (î÷åíü ìÿãêî âûðàæàÿñü) â îòíîøåíèè Èçðàèëÿ è âñåãî ðåãèîíà, ÷òî îíà íå ïðîñèòü- óìîëÿòü äîëæíà, ÷òîáû åé äàëè ïðèáëèçèòüñÿ ê âîïðîñàì óðåãóëèðîâàíèÿ çäåñü.

Íó, ÿ ïðîòèâ òàêîé ïîñòàíîâêè âîïðîñà: ó Ñîâåòñêîãî Ñîþçà áûëî ìíîãî ãðåõîâ â ïðîøëîì - à îòâå÷àòü áóäåò Ðîññèÿ ñåé÷àñ, êîãî-òî òàì óìîëÿòü è òàê äàëåå.... Äà è êîãî óìîëÿòü òî? Îëüìåðòà? Òàê îí è òàê èìååò êîíòàêòû ñ Ðîññèåé, áåç âñÿêèõ óìîëåíèé. Äà ÿ è íå äóìàþ ÷òî óðåãóëèðîâàíèå íà Áëèæíåì Âîñòîêå - ýòî ïðèîðèòåò äëÿ Ðîññèè, ýòî òðàäèöèîííî çîíà âëèÿíèÿ Øòàòîâ, ó Ðîññèè ïîëíî äðóãèõ ïðîáëåì....

Sobesednik ():

ß óáåæä¸í, ÷òî åñëè áû íå ðîññèéñêîå âìåøàòåëüñòâî, Áëèæíèé Âîñòîê äàâíî íàñëàæäàëñÿ áû ìèðîì è áëàãîäåíñòâèåì.

Íó à êàêîå áûëî âìåøàòåëüñòâî Ðîññèè ïîñëå 91-îãî ãîäà?

Ïîëèòè÷åñêîå? Ñîãëàøåíèÿ Îñëî áûëè çàêëþ÷åíû, íàñêîëüêî ÿ çíàþ, áåç ó÷àñòèÿ Ðîññèè. Âñå îñòàëüíûå ñîãëàøåíèÿ/ïåðåãîâîðû òàêæå ïðîâîäèëèñü áåç ó÷àñòèÿ Ðîññèè.

Ýêîíîìè÷åñêîå? Ðîññèÿ áûëà íå â ïîçèöèè (äóìàþ è ñåé÷àñ íå â ïîçèöèè) ýêîíîìè÷åñêè íà êîãî-òî íàäàâèòü íà Áëèæíåì Âîñòîêå.

Âîåííîå? Äà, âîçìîæíî. Ðîññèÿ ïðîäàâàëà âîîðóæåíèÿ Ñèðèè è Èðàíó, âîçìîæíî ÷àñòü ýòîãî âîîðóæåíèÿ ïîïàëà ê Õèçáàëëå. Òîåñòü â ýòîì çàêëþ÷àþòñÿ ïðåòåíçèè ê Ðîññèè?
_________________
A la guerre comme a la guerre èëè âòîðàÿ ðåäàêöèÿ Çàáóãîðíîâà
Zabougornov
Äîáðûé Àäìèíèñòðàòîð (èíîãäà)


: 06.03.2005
: 12000
: Îáåð-ãðóïïåí-äîöåíò, ñò. ðóêîâîäèòåëü ãðóïïû ñêîðîñòíûõ ñâèíãåðîâ, îí æå Çàáàøëåâè÷ Îöààò Ïîýëåâè÷

: , 25 2007, 11:20:10     :

Sobesednik ():

Ðîññèÿ ñïðîâîöèðîâàëà øåñòèäíåâíóþ âîéíó, ñíàáäèâ ðàçâåäêè Èçðàèëÿ è àðàáñêèõ ñòðàí äåçèíôîðìàöèåé îá àãðåññèâíûõ íàìåðåíèÿõ îäíèõ ïðîòèâ äðóãèõ. Èíûìè ñëîâàìè- ïðîñòî ñòîëêíóëà ê âîéíå ñòîðîíû è íå äóìàâøèå âîåâàòü.
Íà ñ÷àñòüå Èçðàèëÿ è íà ãîðå àðàáñêèõ ñîñåäåé âîéíà çàêîí÷èëàñü òàê êàê çàêîí÷èëàñü.

Äà, åñòü òàêîå ìíåíèå. Åãî, â ÷àñòíîñòè, ïðèäåðæèâàåòñÿ Isabella Ginor
http://meria.idc.ac.il/journal/2003/issue3/ginor.pdf
Íà äîñóãå ñîáèðàþñü ïî÷èòàòü å¸ àðãóìåíòû.

Íî âîò ñ ÷åì íå ñîãëàñåí, òàê ýòî ñ òåì ÷òî Èçðàèëü è Àðàáñêèå ñòðàíû è íå äóìàëè âîåâàòü.
Åù¸ êàê äóìàëè! È âîåâàëè êñòàòè.

Èíöèäåíòû â 1965 ãîäó
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_days_war
In 1964, Israel began withdrawing water from the Jordan River for its National Water Carrier. The following year, the Arab states began construction of the Headwater Diversion Plan, which, once completed, would divert the waters of the Banias Stream so that the water wouldn't enter Israel, and the Sea of Galilee, but rather flow into a dam at Mukhaiba for Jordan and Syria, and divert the waters of the Hasbani into the Litani, in Lebanon. The diversion works would have reduced the installed capacity of Israel's carrier by about 35%, and Israel's overall water supply by about 11%.[6] The Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) attacked the diversion works in Syria in March, May, and August of 1965, perpetuating a prolonged chain of border violence that linked directly to the events leading to war.

The Samu Incident

On 12 November, 1966 an Israeli border patrol hit a mine, killing three soldiers and injuring six others. The Israelis believed the mine had been planted by terrorists from Es Samu on the West Bank. Early on the morning 13 November, King Hussein, who had been having secret meetings with Abba Eban and Golda Meir for three years concerning peace and secure borders, received an unsolicited message from his Israeli contacts stating that Israel had no intention of attacking Jordan.[8] However, at 5:30 a.m. in what Hussein described as an action carried out "under the pretext of 'reprisals against the terrorist activities of the P.L.O.' Israeli forces attacked Es Samu, a village in Jordanian-occupied West Bank of 4,000 inhabitants, all of them Palestinian refugees whom the Israelis accused of harboring terrorists from Syria".[9]

In "Operation Shredder", Israel's largest military operation since 1956, a force of around 3,000-4,000 soldiers backed by tanks and aircraft divided into a reserve force, which remained on the Israeli side of the border, and two raiding parties, which crossed into the Jordanian-occupied West Bank. The larger force of eight Centurion tanks followed by 400 paratroopers mounted in 40 open-topped half-tracks and 60 engineers in 10 more half-tracks headed for Samu, while a smaller force of 3 tanks and 100 paratroopers and engineers in 10 half-tracks headed towards two smaller villages, Kirbet El-Markas and Kirbet Jimba. Conflicting reports of this incident have been made. According to Terrence Prittie's Eshkol: The Man and the Nation 50 houses were blown up but the inhabitants had been evacuated hours before. The 48th Infantry Battalion of the Jordanian army, commanded by Major Asad Ghanma, ran into the Israeli forces north-west of Samu and two companies approaching from the north-east were intercepted by the Israelis, while a platoon of Jordanians armed with two 106 mm recoilless guns entered Samu. In the ensuing battles three Jordanian civilians and fifteen soldiers were killed; fifty-four other soldiers and ninety-six civilians were wounded. The commander of the Israeli paratroop battalion, Colonel Yoav Shaham, was killed and ten other Israeli soldiers were wounded.[10][11] According to the Israeli Government, fifty Jordanians were killed but the true number was never disclosed by the Jordanians in order to keep up morale and confidence in King Hussein's regime.


Èíöèäåíò íà ñèðèéñêîé ãðàíèöå, April 1967
On April 7, 1967, a minor border incident escalated into a full-scale aerial battle over the Golan Heights, resulting in the loss of six Syrian MiG-21s to Israeli Air Force (IAF) Dassault Mirage III, and the latter's flight over Damascus.[21] Tanks, heavy mortars, and artillery were used in various sections along the 47 mile (76 km) border in what was described as "a dispute over cultivation rights in the demilitarized zone south-east of Lake Tiberias." Earlier in the week, Syria had twice attacked an Israeli tractor working in the area and when it returned on the morning of 7 April the Syrians opened fire again. The Israelis responded by sending in armour-plated tractors to continue ploughing, resulting in further exchanges of fire. Israeli aircraft dive-bombed Syrian positions with 250 and 500 kg bombs. The Syrians responded by shelling Israeli border settlements heavily and Israeli jets retaliated by bombing the village of Sqoufiye destroying around 40 houses. At 1519 Syrian shells started falling on Kibbutz Gadot; over 300 landed within the kibbutz compound in 40 minutes.[22] UNTSO attempted to arrange a ceasefire, but Syria declined to co-operate unless Israeli agricultural work was halted.
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A la guerre comme a la guerre èëè âòîðàÿ ðåäàêöèÿ Çàáóãîðíîâà
Loanka



: 06.04.2006
: 3745
: Paris

: , 25 2007, 13:32:18     :

Sobesednik ():

Êàê â âîäó ãëÿäåëà...


Âîäà òóò íå ïðè ÷åì, óâàæàåìûé, ïðîñòî ÿ óæ Âàñ äîñòàòî÷íî çíàþ - ëèøíèé ðàç ïðîñèòü Âàñ íå íàäî, âñåãäà óøàòèê äëÿ Ðîññèè â ïðèïàñå.... Îäíîãî òîëüêî íå ïîéìó - êàêîâ ó Âàñ èíòåðåñ äåëàòü ýòî òóò? Ïîìíèòå íàø ðàçãîâîð, Âû óïîìÿíàëè, ÷òî Âàì íåïðèÿòíî õîäèòü íà ôîðóìû, ãäå îáñóæäàåòñÿ àðàáî-èçðàèëüñêèé êîíôëèêò? Ó ìåíÿ â ýòîì ïëàíå äâà âîïðîñà: âî-ïåðâûõ, çà÷åì ñàìîìó íà÷èíàòü ýòè îáñóæäåíèÿ, à âî-âòîðûõ, ÿ Âàì â ñâîå âðåìÿ îòâåòèëà, ÷òî ó ìåíÿ òîæå ñàìîå ñ ðîññèéñêèì âîïðîñîì, íî Âàñ ýòî ïîõîæå íå ñìóùàåò, õîòÿ, ÿ äóìàþ, íà èçðàèëüñêèõ ôîðóìàõ Âû íàéäåòå áîëüøå åäèíîìûøëèííèêîâ.... Confused Íó ýòî òàê, îòñòóïëåíèå îò òåìû.

Âîò ïî òåìå: ìíå òóò êíèæêó ïîäêèíóëè, ÷òîáû ÿ óìíåëà (åñëè ìîé ñëó÷àé åùå íå áåçíàäåæíûé). Íàçûâàåòñÿ "Áèçíåñ ïî-åâðåéñêè, 67 çîëîòûõ ïðàâèë", àâòîð íåêèé Ì.Ë.Àáðàìîâè÷, ïîïóëÿðíî îáúÿñíÿåò îñíîâíûå ìîðàëüíûå ïðèíöèïû ïî Òîðå è Òàëìóäó. Ïðî÷ëà, ïîíÿëà, ÷òî óæå ìíîãî ëåò ÿ óñïåøíî âûïîëíÿþ íåêîòîðûå çàïîâåäè Òîðû, çàäóìàëàñü... Confused Íî ýòî îïÿòü íå ïî òåìå.

Êîðî÷å, ïðàâèëî 49: "Åñëè êòî õî÷åò óáèòü òåáÿ, óáåé åãî ïåðâûì".
Öèòèðóþ " Õîòÿ æèçíü êàæäîãî èç ëþäåé - âåëè÷àéøàÿ öåííîñòü, òîò, êòî óáèâàåò íåâèíîâíûõ, íå èìååò ïðàâà æèòü. [...] Òàëìóä ó÷èò : "Åñëè êòî õî÷åò óáèòü òåáÿ, óáåé åãî ïåðâûì". Ïåðåä íà÷àëîì Øåñòèäíåâíîé âîéíû, àðàáû íåîäíîêðàòíî çàÿâëÿëè, ÷òî õîòÿò óíè÷òîæèòü åâðååâ, ýòè óãðîçû ïîñëóæèëè ïðè÷èíîé òîìó, ÷òî Èçðàèëü àòàêîâàë àðàáîâ.  íà÷àëå 80-õ Èðàê õîòåë ñáðîñèòü íà Èçðàèëü àòîìíóþ áîìáó, à â 1981 ãîäó Èçðàèëü óíè÷òîæèë àòîìíûé ðåàêòîð â Èðàêå, è âñå åâðåè ìèðà âîïðèíÿëè ýòó àòàêó êàê âûïîëíåíèå çàêîíîâ Òàëìóäà. Ñîãëàñíî Òàëìóäó, êàê îòäåëüíûå ëþäè, òàê è öåëàÿ íàöèÿ, èìåþò ïðàâî íàïàñòü ïåðâûìè íà òîãî, êòî ñîáèðàåòñÿ èõ óíè÷òîæèòü."

Òàê ÷òî çâèíÿéòå, óâèäåòü â çàïîâåäÿõ Òàëìóäà ñòðàòåãè÷åñêèé èíòåðåñ Ðîññèè ìíå ñîâñåì òðóäíî, åäèíñòâåííîå, åñëè ê ýòîìó óìîçàêëþ÷åíèþ íå ïîäòàëêèâàþò êàêèå-íèòü ëè÷íûå ïðåòåíçèè. Íî ýòî, ñîãëàñèòåñü, íå î÷åíü îáúåêòèâíî. Íî ÿ âïîëíå äîïóñêàþ, ÷òî ÿ ìíîãî íå ïîíèìàþ â ýòîé æèçíè, òàê ÷òî ðàçúÿñíèòå, åñëè ÷òî íå òàê.
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Ó÷åíüå — ñâåò, à íåó÷åíüå — ïðèÿòíûé ïîëóìðàê. (ñ) Æâàíåöêèé
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